I have just had an email saying that the Feb 2005 email from Dr Phil Jones to me saying – “We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it. ” – has been mentioned at Climate etc the blog by Dr Judith Curry.
This got me to wondering if I have posted anywhere the six months sequence of emails starting July 2004 that lead up to Dr Jones marvellous missive. If you click more – my warts & all text file notes are there for those interested.
cru@uea.ac.uk July 2004 attempt to get station data out of CRU.
Dear Jean Palutikof, Dr P.D. Jones,
I was just reading your web page at; www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/
and wish to access the station by station temperature data, updated through 2001 referred to on your CRU web page;
www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/#datdow
as “Over land regions of the world over 3000 monthly station temperature time series are used.”
Where can I download the latest station by station data which is a foundation of Dr Jones et al published papers ?
Note, I am not asking about the CRU gridded data which I can see on your web site.
Looking forward to your help,
Best wishes,
Warwick Hughes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Phil tells me to ask the WMO
Warwick,
The station data are not on the CRU web site. If you look at the GHCN page at NCDC, you’ll see they have stopped access and cited WMO Res. 40 for this. To my mind this resolution is supposed to make access free.
However, it was hinted at to me a year or two ago that I should also
not make the station data available.
The gridded data are there as you know.
I would suggest you take this up with WMO and/or GCOS. I have raised it
several times with them and got nowhere.
Cheers
Phil
Prof. Phil Jones
Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
University of East Anglia
Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk
NR4 7TJ
UK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Following Phil’s reply above I sent this email to several WMO email address’s over a period of months in 2004 – never got a reply from WMO.
Dear Chief Executive Officer,
World Climate Data and Monitoring Programme Division (WCD),
Last July I emailed Prof Phil Jones;
Prof. Phil Jones
Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
University of East Anglia
Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk
NR4 7TJ
UK
asking him for his “…station by station temperature data, updated through 2001 referred to on your CRU web page;
www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/#datdow
as “Over land regions of the world over 3000 monthly station temperature time series are used.”
Professor Jones replied to say that he had been asked to stop releasing those data.
In view of the desirability that the free flow of scientific data be maintained, I feel sure this is a misunderstanding and I look forward to you letting Prof Jones know that the WMO has no objection to him quickly passing on to me these global station by station temperature data updated as recent as possible.
I have been researching and publishing on climate science since the early 1990’s, see list below.
Refereed Published Papers:
1992 Robert C. Balling, Jr., Sherwood B. Idso, and Warwick S. Hughes. “Long-Term and Recent Anomalous Temperature Changes in Australia.” Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 19, No. 23, pp. 2317-2320.
1995 Robert C. Balling, Jr. and Warwick S. Hughes. “Comments on “Detecting Climate Change Concurrent with Deforestation in the Amazon Basin: Which Way Has It Gone ?” Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, Vol. 76, No. 4, 9. 559.
1995 Warwick S. Hughes. Comment on D.E. Parker, “Effects of Changing Exposure of Thermometers at Land Stations.” International Journal of Climatology, Vol. 15, pp. 231-234.
1996 Warwick S. Hughes and Robert C. Balling, Jr. “Urban Influences on South African Temperature Trends.” International Journal of Climatology, Vol. 16, No. 8, pp. 935-940. Online at www.john-daly.com/s-africa.htm
1997 Warwick S. Hughes. Comment on, “Historical Thermometer Exposures in Australia.” by N. Nichols et al. International Journal of Climatology, Vol. 17, pp. 197-199.
I look forward to your assistance.
Yours faithfully,
Warwick S. Hughes
Perth
Australia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Obviously months have passed – as they do – including Xmas 2004 – buying a new house – something must have nudged me to batter my head against the wall again in Feb 2005.
sent ~17 Feb 2005
Dear Phil,
Greetings from sunny Perth.
Re the issue of the non-availability of your station by station global data.
I have this month emailed the WMO a couple of times with the text below this email, no response so far. I have used the following two email addresses from the “ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTORY Offices and Departments:” on the WMO web site. First the Office of the Secretary-General(SG) sg_o@wmo.int
and looking down their long list of Departments I selected World Climate Data and Monitoring Programme Division (WCD) with email address wcdmp@wmo.int .
I wondered if you had any suggestion for a WMO email address that might respond ?
Best wishes,
Warwick Hughes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 04:47:07 +0000
From: f028
To: “xxxxxxxx@iinet.net.au”
Subject: RE: WMO non respondo
Warwick,
In Pune, India at the moment. Back in CRU on
Monday but away then the rest of next week.
WCDMP doesn’t have a head at the moment as the
last person retired in December. I will look at
my email addresses I have on my machine at work on Monday.
Phil
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:12:22 +0000
From: Phil Jones
Subject: Re: WMO non respondo
Warwick,
Hans Teunisson will reply. He’ll tell you which other people should
reply.
Hans is “Hans Teunissen”
I should warn you that some data we have we are not supposed top pass on to others. We can pass on the gridded data – which we do. Even if WMO agrees, I will still not pass on the data. We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it. There is IPR to consider.
You can get similar data from GHCN at NCDC. Australia isn’t restricted there.
Several European countries are. Basically because, for example, France doesn’t want the French picking up data on France from Asheville. Meteo France wants to supply data to the French on France. Same story in most of the others.
Cheers
Phil
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>…
I can not recall writing to Hans Teunissen at WMO – but thanks to the Climategate 2.0 email #1299 I now know that Phil prepared Hans well with this duplicitous little effort.
date: Mon Feb 21 12:15:39 2005
from: Phil Jones
subject: Fwd: Re: WMO non respondo
to: “Hans Teunissen”
Hans,
This guy pesters me from time to time. I’ve given him your name at WMO/GCOS as someone who’ll reply. We can discuss the merits of my stance in April ! He wants to find fault with some of our station data and by default that the world isn’t warming. If you can just tell him some wmo email addresses that might respond.
Why I’m helping him with emails is beyond me ! He wants to discredit what I’ve done. Why the gridded data isn’t good enough is beyond me.
Cheers
Phil
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
17 Jan 2016 – I can not see anything in my text files about writing to or hearing from Hans Teunissen. I have used the little freeware HDD searcher “Locate” for years now and try to save material with a relevant filename to make later searching easier for Locate. To check my email software from 2005 would involve breathing life into a discarded HDD – in hope – a project I lack the time for now.
Thanks, Warwick for that very interesting tale of persistence.
Well I never got any reply from WMO –
and never got any station data –
So the gatekeepers were very efficient.
But if the time I spent contributed to Climategate by an Iota – then it was worth it in spades.
Well done Warwick Hughes. The fact that it has resurfaced on a highly influential climate web site Climate Etc. and dubbed “the most famous of all climate emails” suggests it was influential and possible a catalyst for the release of the climate gate emails:
Warwick, thanks for posting these details and clarifying your stand. As you may or may not know, it was in response to reading about your interchange with Phil Jones that I wrote the very first Freedom of Information request to him for his data. Bizarrely, and totally unknown to me, this started a chain of events that culminated in the Climategate revelations.
How ironic is that, my friend? Your request to Phil Jones ended up with Phil and the others being indicted by their own words in the Climategate emails. It gives me faith in the scientific method.
All the best to you,
w.
Willis.
That’s interesting. I guessed that Warwick’s request for information could have been a catalyst, and you’ve just confirmed it.
Wouldn’t it be great if others involved fill in some background and tell us what they know too. 🙂
Great to hear from you Willis. I never realized that the Jones – We have 25 years…. email played a part in your venture into climate studies. Amazing how the web of influences and random actions makes our little fragments of history.
I obviously carried on in 2005 trying to get the Jones station data – here is a reply from CDIAC – Div of the US Dept of Energy – you could not make up this stuff.
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005
Subject: Re: Station data required for 1856-2004 Jones et al
Dear Warwick,
Unfortunately, our data center does not have any of the six
requested items. You will need to contact Phil directly. I spoke today with the DOE program manager who indicated Phil was not obligated under the conditions of past or present DOE proposal awards to provide these items to CDIAC.
I regret we cannot furnish the materials you seek.
Regards,
The DoE has funded Jones for decades but as they say – “…Phil was not obligated under the conditions of past or present DOE proposal awards to provide these items to CDIAC.”
Right out of Alice in Wonderland or Monty Python – is there a US comedy parallel ?
I have posted on the DoE – CDIAC a few times – here are two examples – the search engine under my Categories will find more.
Is the US Dept of Energy still funding Professor Phil Jones ?
you betcha – and
US Dept of Energy – should come under more scrutiny
Fascinating is it not that when somebody? in the US DoE wanted to fund the formation of a global temperature series in the late 1970’s – they turned to the UK and Phil Jones. When there were many highly qualified US meteorologists.